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Electric Car Motors, Generators, and Perpetual Motion

by Glenn Harris
(Dallas, Texas)

Perpetual Motion Machine Powers Electric Car...I wish!

Perpetual Motion Machine Powers Electric Car...I wish!

Why can't a generator be added to the EV's system to keep the battery recharged...preferably one that draws from the energy that the battery is already creating?

Hi, Glenn!
Because there's still no such thing as perpetual motion, although people are still giving it a go. Can't blame them, really. So why do they fail?

Ahem.


Physics Lecture Alert: May cause dizziness, sweating, mild heart palpitations. You probably won't die, but ya never know.

Here we go...

The second law of thermodynamics is the one that usually gets in the way of perpetual motion: that's the law that says that in a closed system - your electric car, for instance - chaos will eventually WIN. The batteries will run down. The whole job of running your car is a downhill process, in terms of energy: you start with high potential energy, you burn up a lot of kinetic energy, you end up with low potential energy. Then you plug in to the wall socket and start all over again the next day.
This means no matter how good your generator is, you'll never get as much energy back from the system as you put in. All a generator can do is turn a given quantity of mechanical energy into electrical energy. It can't do magic.

Speaking of magic, Glenn, I'll bet you already know that the battery doesn't create energy, it only stores energy (which came from somewhere).

Regards,
Lynne

Comments for Electric Car Motors, Generators, and Perpetual Motion

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Extending the range
by: A.C.

I have been thinking of how to extend the range and lighten the weight, which of course is a main concern. Here are my "Current Thoughts" no pun intended. The energy required to drive an electric ac motor under load can be supplied by an aircraft alternator producing 1000 watts in most cases, the energy required to drive the alternator and watt multiplier is a fraction required to charge huge battery banks. Look at the formula it makes sense to look at this as an alternative.

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perpetual motion
by: kputer

I thought of the same idea as you but.if you think of how a train system brakes work.there use there elec motors to use as brakes.there motor becomes a generator and the generator is shoted causing friction as heat to slow the train.
If you add alternators to catch electricity,the draw cause drag on elec motor causing you to slow down,you then need to add more power to keep same speed,means part of the elec produced will be lost in heat and drag.
you can only capture mometum that you dont need anymore to stop the car and produce a small amount of electricty.
solar,and regenerative braking,along with lithium battery along with a good lightweight design,is the only way to get distance from elec car

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perpetual motion
by: greg42

Hi if you want to drive for nothing walk,if however you want to do more for less you need to do the tried and true. Less weight more batteries better power to weight ratio. the more you put into a drive train the more the drag on the batteries. chargeing the batteries is a slower is better thing. so a generator is good but remember the ratio to use a generator that works best would be a small one that is able to supply even output while driving and parked don't forget change is not a good thing for this stuff. also if you plan your trip and have enough battery power to go three hours on one bank you can put a good charge on the other bank. then a stop for a brake would not take to long to get you a charged bank. a long charge would be needed after two cycles to keep a consistant charge and the house or the generator would do the trick. save gas and your budget.

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wll guys i can do these thing with my engine design
by: Anonymous:-) tyger

I can solve the energy crisis with my designs my only flawing setback is I'm lacking the finance my brains to big for my wallet to keep up with all my small prototypes work but imploring them to a larger scale take more money than I currently can assume control of


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Electric Car Motors, Generators, and Perpetual Motion
by: Anonymous

Has anyone thought about using a wind turbine to help recharge the batteries. In the middle of the car you run what would be equivalent to a wind tunnel. Air would come in through the front and as it goes through it turns the wind turbine and the air goes out the back of the car.

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Electric Car Motors, and Generators
by: Anonymous

I have started looking into alternative ways to power a car. I read some info that you would need a 20 kw diesel generators "The great thing about diesel generators is you can get them to run on used vegetable oil and next to nothing pollution wise" to run power to keep the 144 volts of batteries charged, which are very big and bulky. I was wondering if you were going to have a generator constantly keeping the battery charged could you get it down to 48 volts which would require a much smaller generator. Another thought could you directly connect the ac motor to the generator so it doesn't even require to run off of a battery.

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Hybrid systems
by: veekram

Well, hybrid systems are very easy to set up and very helpful too as one can shift from either of the two easily.. But remember that we want an alternative system to the ones already existing.. also, the best system would be one using all the waste already generated and hence, in the long run, eliminate the existing waste and give us more space and lesser pollution.. so, we must try to use our heads to concentrate not on newer engineered items from a MARKET ANGLE (Business Minded) but rather OPEN SOURCE, that could be done by everyone, using ONLY SCRAP AVAILABLE AT ALL GARBAGE DISPOSAL GROUNDS.. This is the ultimate way to bring about a SUSTAINABLE SYsTEM..there should be recycling of wastes without addition of newer wastes.. as simple as this..
veekra at gmail dot com

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IC supplement
by: Greentree

Since using generators to create perpetual energy and ignor the laws of thermodynamics, what about using a small internal combustion engine with generator to infuse an electrical charge directly to the vehicle electric motor or batteries? The IC engine could operate at an RPM to run the generator head. This would use a lot less fuel than an IC engine providing motivation for the vehicle. Yes this is a type of hybrid.

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same garbage as what einstien once said
by: Anonymous

About three problems he claimed could not be solved. Since he said so, noone bothered to solve the problems. Until one day. THEY WERE SOLVED. By a student late for class. Since they were late, they did not hear what the teacher said. When you get done with the test, write the problems on the board down. Use them to pass the time. Because they cannot be solved. Since Einstein said so.

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Everything starting has definitely an END
by: Veekram

Yes Ralph, Thanks for the comment. but remember that big people think big, while simple people do big.. so never actually follow talkers.. better act on your personal beliefs, as it is said, better fail in something than succeed in nothing.. So, I would advise you to start applying your ideas right away.. please visit this site for more ideas:
http://www.evalbum.com, a lot of examples with pictures and specifications have been provided.. As such, you can easily come-up with your own modifications.. But for legislation here in my country, no provision yet for electric vehicles.. a bit risky, hence, I have in mind to leave the IC engine as it is, and use the axle from the differential to the motor as a rotor for the electric motor.. thus, I can switch from electric to IC whenever I want. but the power to the electric motor will be provided by the alternators driven by the IC engine.. You know, at first I am just trying to cut down use of gasoline.. so this is the best solution..
veekram

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KEEPING GOOD IDEAS IN MY HEAD
by: Ralph

I thought about this 25 years ago . but I was afraid to come foward with this idea,because I thouth Big oil companies and car manufactures, who have money in oil,would deep 6 me. 'REMEMBER OIL IS VERY BIG BUSINESS'

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HOW ABOUT UPS IN SERIES !!!
by: Veekram

Dear Sam,
I am very happy that you mentioned this idea of testing it.. Well, It sure needs some testing and please try to come back and relate to us the results.. Also, I would suggest using several, at least two UPS in series, with the input of one connected to the other and then the output of the other to the input power of the first.. Please test this idea and let us know.. I will also try on my side.. otherwise, I understand that, alternators have a rectifier unit and are also artificially limited to 14 Volts. Hence, I would suggest ways to eliminate these LIMITERS and eventually use them to produce higher Currents and Voltages to supply power to electric motors directly.. Please comment and send replies to veekra@gmail.com. thanks and keep the research going.. sure to find something

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why not
by: Sam Mahone

I've been thinking of the same thing, using multiple generators on the free spinning axle equal to the wattage the electric engine needs to operate, and maybe you would not need as much batteries which would help a heck of a lot with weight reduction. I want to test it out on a go-cart first, would i even need batteries could all it need is a push start? A magnet motor would be BA also.

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DRAG
by: Anveekramonymous

Dear Larry,
it seems you have not taken into consideration the fact that we could use gears to decrease the drag.. furthermore, we are not likely to produce enourmous voltages.. instead we are planning to charge 12 volt batteries and for long period charging, i.e around 2 volts per cell...so I cannot see considerable amounts of drag here.. also, we can use wind energy (true drag) to produce the charging voltage as well.. several alternators could be re-engineered to produce electricity and effectively use it for charging or other use..
regards
veekram

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Perpetual motion
by: Veekram

dear Mar,
Your idea is very good. Instead I would suggest adding several dynamos like in bicycles, all around the tires of the car (perhaps 8 per tire) and then sum up the currents thus produced and charge not only one, but several batteries, as a stock of power. Eventually, we simply need to add current/voltage shifters between batteries to compensate from low battery. I guess we are approaching the perpetual motion idea slowly but surely.. Moreover, I am suggesting that we replace all the individual lights by one single brilliant one which could be directed at different lamps using optical fibres.. in this way we can make a lot of economies on night driving with batteries..
regards
veekram

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perpetual power source (almost ! )
by: Mark L

If you have to charge the batteries of an electric car then why can't the rear axle be used with an aperature to produce electricity while the car is in operation and keep the batteries charged continually ?

Let's say I needed to drive 100 miles and I have fully charged batteries for this trip......I leave my garage and immediately my rear axle begins to turn several hundred rpm's. What if this axle turned a winding that also delivered current back to the bank of storage batteries so when I got to my destination I had used virtually none of my original charge ?
Isn't that pretty close to perpetual ?

Conservation of energy. Your rear axle will produce drag on your battery pack in amounts equal to or greater than it manages to give back. Sorry.
- Lynne

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Reply to Larry
by: Veekram

Dear Larry,
Thanks for the comment. Well, I have a very negative idea about people who try to evade reality with absurd formulae.. Actually, I have myself been with academics but then I realised that theoretical views are here simply to either fine tune or destroy existing inventions. I can tell you that 80% of my inventions have been the fruit of practical applications before using theories - just to explain the idea to scientists. A layman has the power to facilitate his tasks using ordinary physics, though he does not know the theory behind it. A scientist tries to influence his competing colleagues with theories really unimportant for the particular needed invention. Papers are meant to be read and applied practically, not to gather titles. My motto is "if you don't have the means to buy it, build it". I am expert in re-engineering existing products that have been classified as scrap by users. Hence, I have a lot of options for electric vehicle components, using existing scrap parts. Furthermore, you better contact me on veekra@gmail.com for in depth debate as you seem to be very interested with electric vehicles.
All other interested persons are invited to e-mail me if they need debatable comments.
thanks
veekram

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Larry
by: Anonymous

Veekram I don't think that's giong to work very well. Fist of all AC motors are not very efficent especially when compared to a DC motor. DC provides a lot more power.

Befor you build one you may want to get your hands on some electrical formulas and calculate primary and secondary voltage and amperage as well as power calculations.


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ive solved this problem
by: tyger

ive soved this problem i do believe.I am currently looking for sponsors and and backer to help support the building of a perpetual electric enrgy car proto type if anybody wants a piece of the action please contact me at tyger_848@yahoo.com or deathcat888@myspace.com patent is good for 5 years so lets try and do this quick

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Using Ac output andTransformers
by: Anonymous

Hi there, I would like to suggest that we go for transformers.. What I mean is that, first the inverter converts the DC to AC and then, using step up transformers, a larger current value can be obtained. Then, Use this NEW SOrce of power to power both thedriving battery and the driven motor... I have all the neede theories and I am planning to implement the findings shortly..
Just need some friends totry aswell.

regards
veekram

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Perpetual motion
by: KGround

There is a fellow around the Clearwater, FL who has been on TV several times with a pickup truck that has generators connected to the driveshaft somehow to attempt to recharge the batteries as he runs. Claims to use only 25% or less power than a standard electric vehicle, but these claims are, as far as I know, unsubstantiated by independent testing. I would agree with Lynne that this smacks of perpetual motion, except that it seems mighty like the Bedini 'schoolgirl' generator that will be familiar to anyone who follows the 'free energy' literature. >IF< there is anything to it, it comes about because, once the moving mass (in this case the vehicle itself) is at speed then relatively short duration pulses of power can keep it moving at that speed, while the generators are of course producing output continuously. The claim is not that it is completely self sustaining, only that it saves significant energy.

And on the topic of regenerative braking - I have tried it and in my opinion it is vastly overrated unless you live in an area that is so hilly that braking is frequently required to keep the speed from climbing to uncontrollable levels while going downhill. It is a 'free' byproduct of most AC systems, but I would not view it as worth any extra cost or complexity based on what you get back in flat country.

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getting more energy from an electric car
by: David from Canada

All electric cars today only harness 2% of available energy while driving. If they were to install a 150-300 amp generator in addition to the regular generator then as you drive the extra power generated would go directly into the batteries supplying the electric motor and would recharge the battery at the same time or if there is enough power it would run the motor with out the battery.ie once up to highway speed or going down hill or on the flat it takes very little energy to keep going. a computer chip could switch the energy from going into the battery and back to the motor or vice-versa. Just a thought that no one has tried yet.

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