Electric Car Motors, Generators, and Perpetual Motion

by Glenn Harris
(Dallas, Texas)

Perpetual Motion Machine Powers Electric Car...I wish!

Perpetual Motion Machine Powers Electric Car...I wish!

Why can't a generator be added to the EV's system to keep the battery recharged...preferably one that draws from the energy that the battery is already creating?

Hi, Glenn!
Because there's still no such thing as perpetual motion, although people are still giving it a go. Can't blame them, really. So why do they fail?

Ahem.


Physics Lecture Alert: May cause dizziness, sweating, mild heart palpitations. You probably won't die, but ya never know.

Here we go...

The second law of thermodynamics is the one that usually gets in the way of perpetual motion: that's the law that says that in a closed system - your electric car, for instance - chaos will eventually WIN. The batteries will run down. The whole job of running your car is a downhill process, in terms of energy: you start with high potential energy, you burn up a lot of kinetic energy, you end up with low potential energy. Then you plug in to the wall socket and start all over again the next day.
This means no matter how good your generator is, you'll never get as much energy back from the system as you put in. All a generator can do is turn a given quantity of mechanical energy into electrical energy. It can't do magic.

Speaking of magic, Glenn, I'll bet you already know that the battery doesn't create energy, it only stores energy (which came from somewhere).

Regards,
Lynne

Comments for Electric Car Motors, Generators, and Perpetual Motion

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Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		i need help
by: daniel traynor

For several years I have been attempting to design a perpetual motion car engine. Many times I suggested ideas to acquaints, but ended up looking a fool. A totally new design has come to me, but I need an engineer to assist in developing the prototype vehicle. 7153170060 or 7154484352
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starstarstarstarstar 		Range Extender
by: Benjamin

Have a look at the Opel (german GM branch) "Ampera". It uses a small ICE to drive a generator at optimum rpm, small battery set (only couple of kilometers supply) as buffer and purely electric drive. A bit costly (starts around 40000€), but rumored to be very good. By the way: an ancestor of such drives was considered for the Tiger tank of WW2, then used for the Elephant tank destroyer.
Regards from Germany
Benjamin
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starstarstarstarstar 		A Different Way
by: Anonymous

I understand that the battery itself can't be used to constantly charge itself. But why can't a charging system make use of the motion of the car's drive train to do so?
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starstarstarstarstar 		gas generator car
by: Anonymous

you use a gas power generator to produce electricity to run your car and when the car is moving you can also use that motion to charge as well your still using gas but you would get 50 plus miles to gallon
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Dynamo on board EV to alternately recharge 2 batteries or supercapacitors
by: Anonymous

How about an assembly unit on board the EV? The unit shall consist of:

1. Two (2) separate batteries (or supercapacitors) with one fully charged and the other a drained out or low of power.

2. One dynamo to be connected by some form of an adopter, like a fan belt, to any rotating mechanism in the vehicle like the wheels or a shaft to turn the dynamo to produce electricity;

3. A voltage regulator to prevent overcharging, overheating, or explosion, of the battery while being recharged.

4. Automatic switcher to switch in and switch out the batteries for recharging and powering the vehicle and connected by wires to a dash board monitor.

The batteries will be used to power the vehicle alternately as follows:

The fully charged battery will be switched to "on service" to run the vehicle;

The drained battery shall be connected to the dynamo for recharging while the vehicle is being driven. In the recharging process, this battery shall be completely disconnected from powering the vehicle.

When the "On service" battery runs low of power, it will, by computer programming, automatically switched out and switched on to the dynamo for recharging and the recharged battery shall automatically switched on to become the "on service" battery for travel continuance.

If the above set up can be successfully adopted, there would be no mileage range limit in driving the vehicle with no need of stopping by a service station to recharge the batteries, except to buy sandwiches and coffee to "empower" the driver or to poo or to pee.

Additional Question: Can ultra-capacitors serve as electrical storage be installed instead of batteries? Online info says that ultra-capacitors are smaller and lighter and even several times more powerful compared to existing car batteries.
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starstarstarstarstar 		motor/gen
by: Anonymous

why doesn't any one use 2 motors A/C attached together. ONE slightly bigger as generator and ONE as motor. Might want to consider practicing with 2 car allternators. look it up on you tube.HE,he he:)
better than carrying all that battery weight and space. in between union add a belt to add accessories. never drain your batteries all be charged!!!
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starstarstarstarstar 		EV, Capacitors and Dynamo.
by: Anonymous

How about installing two super capacitors for alternate use or alternate recharging and a dynamo. The dynamo shall be connected to a rotating shaft or the wheel of the EV with the use of some adoptor. The dynamo can then recharge the idle capacitor. While one capacitor is powering the EV, the idle capacitor with low power shall then be recharged by the dynamo during the time the vehicle is being driven.

When the powering capacitor runs low, then the recharged capacitor will be switched over to power the car and the exhausted capacitor shall then be switch over to the dynamo for recharging.

I thought a capacitor is lighter than a battery.

Is the above scheme possible?
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starstarstarstarstar 		generators and perpetual motion
by: lamarops

I am new at this so, please do not laugh. I set around at my friends garage and listen to all the gear heads talk about building an electric car and how the battery life could be extended. I have read a few post and understand some and not the others. I guess I am asking for help. If a charged battery drives the vehicle then why cannot a generator be thrown in and if geared correctly there would be very little strain on the power train. Again geared correctly could provide enough energy to at least partially fill the battery's? I have attached a small motor to a bicycle wheel and have a 6 volt battery pushing the motor. I then took a small generator and used the small gear big gear rational and to be honest it drives itself. No perpetual because it did dye after many hours though. My question is why cannot these applications be applied to a bigger system like a car?
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		generators and perpetual motion
by: lamarops

I am new at this so, please do not laugh. I set around at my friends garage and listen to all the gear heads talk about building an electric car and how the battery life could be extended. I have read a few post and understand some and not the others. I guess I am asking for help. If a charged battery drives the vehicle then why cannot a generator be thrown in and if geared correctly there would be very little strain on the power train. Again geared correctly could provide enough energy to at least partially fill the battery's? I have attached a small motor to a bicycle wheel and have a 6 volt battery pushing the motor. I then took a small generator and used the small gear big gear rational and to be honest it drives itself. No perpetual because it did dye after many hours though. My question is why cannot these applications be applied to a bigger system like a car?
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starstarstarstarstar 		a full system design!!!
by: A. J. Nash

I have read all your above comments, a couple I liked, a few I'll agree w/ in part, others I flat out laughed at.
here are my facts:
Through proper mathematics & solid mechanics, I have designed a fully detailed, new transmission system & a new harnessing system, that connects a motor to the car & a generator. The motor does not drive the generator, it only combines it all into 1 system as the new transmission system is mainly to maintaining the generators target r.p.m. of 1,000 [+ or - 5% at most] from 25 mph to 100 rpm.
t13binx@aol.com
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starstarstarstarstar 		Old-fashioned idea; new use
by: Anonymous

What if you harness the energy being produced from the turning of the wheels while vehicle is in motion? If batteries store energy, then no additional weight, it would just keep itself charged without the need for additional battery banks. Basic idea is using a combination of energy production methods such as how dams produce electricity and kinetic energy. The only drain on the existing battery charge would then be to just get the vehicle rolling. Once in motion, it would generate it's own power. Could enough energy be harvested to power all the acessories? Perhaps we could curtail things that are not really essential: power windows/locks, power/heated seats, heated steering wheels, power mirrors, headlight wipers, power lift gates, (you get the picture); in order to lessen voltage requirements. That's why we need the physics-minded individuals. Just a little food for thought!
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starstarstarstarstar 		electric option
by: Rob

We already have the knowhow, we just need to get rid of greed, the need to have more, the desire to control technology to promote and sustain an archaic
monetary system that controls development and progress , for the good of mankind, and the Planet.
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Extending the range
by: A.C.

I have been thinking of how to extend the range and lighten the weight, which of course is a main concern. Here are my "Current Thoughts" no pun intended. The energy required to drive an electric ac motor under load can be supplied by an aircraft alternator producing 1000 watts in most cases, the energy required to drive the alternator and watt multiplier is a fraction required to charge huge battery banks. Look at the formula it makes sense to look at this as an alternative.
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starstarstarstarstar 		perpetual motion
by: kputer

I thought of the same idea as you but.if you think of how a train system brakes work.there use there elec motors to use as brakes.there motor becomes a generator and the generator is shoted causing friction as heat to slow the train.
If you add alternators to catch electricity,the draw cause drag on elec motor causing you to slow down,you then need to add more power to keep same speed,means part of the elec produced will be lost in heat and drag.
you can only capture mometum that you dont need anymore to stop the car and produce a small amount of electricty.
solar,and regenerative braking,along with lithium battery along with a good lightweight design,is the only way to get distance from elec car
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starstarstarstarstar 		perpetual motion
by: greg42

Hi if you want to drive for nothing walk,if however you want to do more for less you need to do the tried and true. Less weight more batteries better power to weight ratio. the more you put into a drive train the more the drag on the batteries. chargeing the batteries is a slower is better thing. so a generator is good but remember the ratio to use a generator that works best would be a small one that is able to supply even output while driving and parked don't forget change is not a good thing for this stuff. also if you plan your trip and have enough battery power to go three hours on one bank you can put a good charge on the other bank. then a stop for a brake would not take to long to get you a charged bank. a long charge would be needed after two cycles to keep a consistant charge and the house or the generator would do the trick. save gas and your budget.
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starstarstarstarstar 		wll guys i can do these thing with my engine design
by: Anonymous:-) tyger

I can solve the energy crisis with my designs my only flawing setback is I'm lacking the finance my brains to big for my wallet to keep up with all my small prototypes work but imploring them to a larger scale take more money than I currently can assume control of
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starstarstarstarstar 		Electric Car Motors, Generators, and Perpetual Motion
by: Anonymous

Has anyone thought about using a wind turbine to help recharge the batteries. In the middle of the car you run what would be equivalent to a wind tunnel. Air would come in through the front and as it goes through it turns the wind turbine and the air goes out the back of the car.
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starstarstarstarstar 		Electric Car Motors, and Generators
by: Anonymous

I have started looking into alternative ways to power a car. I read some info that you would need a 20 kw diesel generators "The great thing about diesel generators is you can get them to run on used vegetable oil and next to nothing pollution wise" to run power to keep the 144 volts of batteries charged, which are very big and bulky. I was wondering if you were going to have a generator constantly keeping the battery charged could you get it down to 48 volts which would require a much smaller generator. Another thought could you directly connect the ac motor to the generator so it doesn't even require to run off of a battery.
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starstarstarstarstar 		Hybrid systems
by: veekram

Well, hybrid systems are very easy to set up and very helpful too as one can shift from either of the two easily.. But remember that we want an alternative system to the ones already existing.. also, the best system would be one using all the waste already generated and hence, in the long run, eliminate the existing waste and give us more space and lesser pollution.. so, we must try to use our heads to concentrate not on newer engineered items from a MARKET ANGLE (Business Minded) but rather OPEN SOURCE, that could be done by everyone, using ONLY SCRAP AVAILABLE AT ALL GARBAGE DISPOSAL GROUNDS.. This is the ultimate way to bring about a SUSTAINABLE SYsTEM..there should be recycling of wastes without addition of newer wastes.. as simple as this..
veekra at gmail dot com
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starstarstarstarstar 		IC supplement
by: Greentree

Since using generators to create perpetual energy and ignor the laws of thermodynamics, what about using a small internal combustion engine with generator to infuse an electrical charge directly to the vehicle electric motor or batteries? The IC engine could operate at an RPM to run the generator head. This would use a lot less fuel than an IC engine providing motivation for the vehicle. Yes this is a type of hybrid.
Rating
starstarstar 		same garbage as what einstien once said
by: Anonymous

About three problems he claimed could not be solved. Since he said so, noone bothered to solve the problems. Until one day. THEY WERE SOLVED. By a student late for class. Since they were late, they did not hear what the teacher said. When you get done with the test, write the problems on the board down. Use them to pass the time. Because they cannot be solved. Since Einstein said so.
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starstarstarstarstar 		Everything starting has definitely an END
by: Veekram

Yes Ralph, Thanks for the comment. but remember that big people think big, while simple people do big.. so never actually follow talkers.. better act on your personal beliefs, as it is said, better fail in something than succeed in nothing.. So, I would advise you to start applying your ideas right away.. please visit this site for more ideas:
http://www.evalbum.com, a lot of examples with pictures and specifications have been provided.. As such, you can easily come-up with your own modifications.. But for legislation here in my country, no provision yet for electric vehicles.. a bit risky, hence, I have in mind to leave the IC engine as it is, and use the axle from the differential to the motor as a rotor for the electric motor.. thus, I can switch from electric to IC whenever I want. but the power to the electric motor will be provided by the alternators driven by the IC engine.. You know, at first I am just trying to cut down use of gasoline.. so this is the best solution..
veekram
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starstarstarstarstar 		KEEPING GOOD IDEAS IN MY HEAD
by: Ralph

I thought about this 25 years ago . but I was afraid to come foward with this idea,because I thouth Big oil companies and car manufactures, who have money in oil,would deep 6 me. 'REMEMBER OIL IS VERY BIG BUSINESS'
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starstarstarstarstar 		HOW ABOUT UPS IN SERIES !!!
by: Veekram

Dear Sam,
I am very happy that you mentioned this idea of testing it.. Well, It sure needs some testing and please try to come back and relate to us the results.. Also, I would suggest using several, at least two UPS in series, with the input of one connected to the other and then the output of the other to the input power of the first.. Please test this idea and let us know.. I will also try on my side.. otherwise, I understand that, alternators have a rectifier unit and are also artificially limited to 14 Volts. Hence, I would suggest ways to eliminate these LIMITERS and eventually use them to produce higher Currents and Voltages to supply power to electric motors directly.. Please comment and send replies to veekra@gmail.com. thanks and keep the research going.. sure to find something
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starstarstarstar 		why not
by: Sam Mahone

I've been thinking of the same thing, using multiple generators on the free spinning axle equal to the wattage the electric engine needs to operate, and maybe you would not need as much batteries which would help a heck of a lot with weight reduction. I want to test it out on a go-cart first, would i even need batteries could all it need is a push start? A magnet motor would be BA also.
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starstarstarstarstar 		DRAG
by: Anveekramonymous

Dear Larry,
it seems you have not taken into consideration the fact that we could use gears to decrease the drag.. furthermore, we are not likely to produce enourmous voltages.. instead we are planning to charge 12 volt batteries and for long period charging, i.e around 2 volts per cell...so I cannot see considerable amounts of drag here.. also, we can use wind energy (true drag) to produce the charging voltage as well.. several alternators could be re-engineered to produce electricity and effectively use it for charging or other use..
regards
veekram
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starstarstarstarstar 		Perpetual motion
by: Veekram

dear Mar,
Your idea is very good. Instead I would suggest adding several dynamos like in bicycles, all around the tires of the car (perhaps 8 per tire) and then sum up the currents thus produced and charge not only one, but several batteries, as a stock of power. Eventually, we simply need to add current/voltage shifters between batteries to compensate from low battery. I guess we are approaching the perpetual motion idea slowly but surely.. Moreover, I am suggesting that we replace all the individual lights by one single brilliant one which could be directed at different lamps using optical fibres.. in this way we can make a lot of economies on night driving with batteries..
regards
veekram
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starstarstarstarstar 		perpetual power source (almost ! )
by: Mark L

If you have to charge the batteries of an electric car then why can't the rear axle be used with an aperature to produce electricity while the car is in operation and keep the batteries charged continually ?

Let's say I needed to drive 100 miles and I have fully charged batteries for this trip......I leave my garage and immediately my rear axle begins to turn several hundred rpm's. What if this axle turned a winding that also delivered current back to the bank of storage batteries so when I got to my destination I had used virtually none of my original charge ?
Isn't that pretty close to perpetual ?

Conservation of energy. Your rear axle will produce drag on your battery pack in amounts equal to or greater than it manages to give back. Sorry.
- Lynne
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starstarstarstarstar 		Reply to Larry
by: Veekram

Dear Larry,
Thanks for the comment. Well, I have a very negative idea about people who try to evade reality with absurd formulae.. Actually, I have myself been with academics but then I realised that theoretical views are here simply to either fine tune or destroy existing inventions. I can tell you that 80% of my inventions have been the fruit of practical applications before using theories - just to explain the idea to scientists. A layman has the power to facilitate his tasks using ordinary physics, though he does not know the theory behind it. A scientist tries to influence his competing colleagues with theories really unimportant for the particular needed invention. Papers are meant to be read and applied practically, not to gather titles. My motto is "if you don't have the means to buy it, build it". I am expert in re-engineering existing products that have been classified as scrap by users. Hence, I have a lot of options for electric vehicle components, using existing scrap parts. Furthermore, you better contact me on veekra@gmail.com for in depth debate as you seem to be very interested with electric vehicles.
All other interested persons are invited to e-mail me if they need debatable comments.
thanks
veekram
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starstarstarstarstar 		Larry
by: Anonymous

Veekram I don't think that's giong to work very well. Fist of all AC motors are not very efficent especially when compared to a DC motor. DC provides a lot more power.

Befor you build one you may want to get your hands on some electrical formulas and calculate primary and secondary voltage and amperage as well as power calculations.
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starstarstarstarstar 		ive solved this problem
by: tyger

ive soved this problem i do believe.I am currently looking for sponsors and and backer to help support the building of a perpetual electric enrgy car proto type if anybody wants a piece of the action please contact me at tyger_848@yahoo.com or deathcat888@myspace.com patent is good for 5 years so lets try and do this quick
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Using Ac output andTransformers
by: Anonymous

Hi there, I would like to suggest that we go for transformers.. What I mean is that, first the inverter converts the DC to AC and then, using step up transformers, a larger current value can be obtained. Then, Use this NEW SOrce of power to power both thedriving battery and the driven motor... I have all the neede theories and I am planning to implement the findings shortly..
Just need some friends totry aswell.

regards
veekram
Rating
starstarstar 		Perpetual motion
by: KGround

There is a fellow around the Clearwater, FL who has been on TV several times with a pickup truck that has generators connected to the driveshaft somehow to attempt to recharge the batteries as he runs. Claims to use only 25% or less power than a standard electric vehicle, but these claims are, as far as I know, unsubstantiated by independent testing. I would agree with Lynne that this smacks of perpetual motion, except that it seems mighty like the Bedini 'schoolgirl' generator that will be familiar to anyone who follows the 'free energy' literature. >IF< there is anything to it, it comes about because, once the moving mass (in this case the vehicle itself) is at speed then relatively short duration pulses of power can keep it moving at that speed, while the generators are of course producing output continuously. The claim is not that it is completely self sustaining, only that it saves significant energy.

And on the topic of regenerative braking - I have tried it and in my opinion it is vastly overrated unless you live in an area that is so hilly that braking is frequently required to keep the speed from climbing to uncontrollable levels while going downhill. It is a 'free' byproduct of most AC systems, but I would not view it as worth any extra cost or complexity based on what you get back in flat country.
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starstarstarstarstar 		getting more energy from an electric car
by: David from Canada

All electric cars today only harness 2% of available energy while driving. If they were to install a 150-300 amp generator in addition to the regular generator then as you drive the extra power generated would go directly into the batteries supplying the electric motor and would recharge the battery at the same time or if there is enough power it would run the motor with out the battery.ie once up to highway speed or going down hill or on the flat it takes very little energy to keep going. a computer chip could switch the energy from going into the battery and back to the motor or vice-versa. Just a thought that no one has tried yet.

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